Really depends on what you mean by loose, and what constitutes a win for Russia.
Russia’s original objective was to waltz to Kyiv and kick down a rotten door, expecting the house to follow. Well that didn’t work out, so what’s the new objective?
Is a win occupying all of Ukraine, just the peninsula, or just realizing the new territory in donbos? If you are talking about the peninsula or the breakaway territory, yea they could probably get away with that pretty easily, but that’s pretty much where we started. But, I would hesitate calling it a win to waste generations worth of military equipment and men to maintain the status quo.
If you are talking about permanently occupying the entirety of the country… I’m not really sure if that’s even an obtainable goal? They are still fighting for every kilometer in eastern Ukraine, and defences will only get tougher as you head west. Plus, they won’t want to utilize the type of bombardments they use to avoid urban combat in the larger eastern cities. At least not if they are the ones who are expecting to pay the bills when this is all over.
This whole venture is only profitable if they actually get to fully integrate Ukrainians into the Russian federation, and with how bloody this war has been, that means a significant occupation force, likely over half a million soldiers.
Win in my opinion would be have the ability to control all of Ukraine eventually, or force Ukaine to capitulate. Maybe they would not be able to occupy because that was never their goal, it was to stop Ukraine from joining nato.
Win in my opinion would be have the ability to control all of Ukraine eventually, or force Ukaine to capitulate.
I wouldn’t say they’re doing so well on the hearts and minds front…
As far as capitulation, that’s what we’re talking about here. What could they possibly capitulate too that would be considered a win at this point? Just about the only thing that would come close is the entirety of Ukraine, and maybe a chunk of Moldavia? That’s going to be an occupation, and everyone knows how well those go these days.
was to stop Ukraine from joining nato.
Okay, well mission accomplished. You stopped a neighboring nation from potentially joining, and scarred two other neighbors into the express lane.
Plus, I don’t think that’s really an academically honest opinion. It would be like saying America invaded Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction.
A lot of Ukrainians were not really excited about NATO prosperity until Russia started pulling the same shenanigans they did in Georgia and Moldavia. It’s not exactly a new tactic in Russia’s foreign policy.
I wouldn’t say they’re doing so well on the hearts and minds front…
In Russia and Eastern Ukraine they did…
Plus, I don’t think that’s really an academically honest opinion. It would be like saying America invaded Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction.
The US facilitated the coup in 2014 (at least there’s a smoking gun), Russia tried to join NATO 3 times and got denied, domestically Navalny got propped up by the west. The writing was on the wall…unlike Iraq
A lot of Ukrainians were not really excited about NATO prosperity until Russia started pulling the same shenanigans they did in Georgia and Moldavia. It’s not exactly a new tactic in Russia’s foreign policy.
You’re reversing cause and effect. First there was the prospect of joining NATO for Ukraine and Georgia then the war in Georgia happened as a response/protest from russia.
Also you’re admitting that the a lot of Ukrainian were not excited about joining NATO, why push for it anyway… not really democratic. Sounds what a puppet government would do
Except that the US said last week that Ukraine WILL join NATO. Its an astounding stupid move when that is precisely what Russia doesnt want to happen. Biden is such a fuck up its astounding. Literally that dick head is pushing us directly into WW3.
This was not said by Russia, it was said by US General Milley to the US Congress, when he lost his marbles at first when the war started. Later it surfaced as popular cope when NATO shills found a second to breathe.
What makes you think their gonna start now after it’s been going for more than two years and there even having trouble conscripting in western Ukraine ?
If they’ve ran out of volunteers in the more nationalist west how are they going to find them in the occupied territories where patriotism to Ukraine has always been lower?
Because you have to be occupied before you can do guerilla resistance? Also because guerilla activities require fewer personnel than an armed mobilization?
If Ukraine fell to invasion, as in like their lines collapse and they lose the territory they’re currently holding, now every Ukrainian who might consider fighting is already behind enemy lines. Instead of being concentrated physically and very obviously defending themselves you’d have a very pissed off post-invasion population able to act inside of occupied territory. Look at the resistance fighters in occupied France in WWII. Putin isn’t going to have an easy time even if he manages to push an invasion force through.
Good luck holding a country that fights as hard as Ukraine.
That isnt really relevant because Russia would get what they are looking for in the end no matter how much of a resistance there is. All they need to do is finish off their army, and not allow a new government to form and they have achieved their goal.
Ukraine is going to lose with aid, all giving them more money does is allow them to not negotiate for longer.
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Sorry if you cant handle the truth, its just the objective reality of the facts.
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As told by all the mainstream western media buddy.
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No, it’s your opinion.
Its the opinion of everyone that has any level of information of the situation and is honest.
Really depends on what you mean by loose, and what constitutes a win for Russia.
Russia’s original objective was to waltz to Kyiv and kick down a rotten door, expecting the house to follow. Well that didn’t work out, so what’s the new objective?
Is a win occupying all of Ukraine, just the peninsula, or just realizing the new territory in donbos? If you are talking about the peninsula or the breakaway territory, yea they could probably get away with that pretty easily, but that’s pretty much where we started. But, I would hesitate calling it a win to waste generations worth of military equipment and men to maintain the status quo.
If you are talking about permanently occupying the entirety of the country… I’m not really sure if that’s even an obtainable goal? They are still fighting for every kilometer in eastern Ukraine, and defences will only get tougher as you head west. Plus, they won’t want to utilize the type of bombardments they use to avoid urban combat in the larger eastern cities. At least not if they are the ones who are expecting to pay the bills when this is all over.
This whole venture is only profitable if they actually get to fully integrate Ukrainians into the Russian federation, and with how bloody this war has been, that means a significant occupation force, likely over half a million soldiers.
Win in my opinion would be have the ability to control all of Ukraine eventually, or force Ukaine to capitulate. Maybe they would not be able to occupy because that was never their goal, it was to stop Ukraine from joining nato.
I wouldn’t say they’re doing so well on the hearts and minds front…
As far as capitulation, that’s what we’re talking about here. What could they possibly capitulate too that would be considered a win at this point? Just about the only thing that would come close is the entirety of Ukraine, and maybe a chunk of Moldavia? That’s going to be an occupation, and everyone knows how well those go these days.
Okay, well mission accomplished. You stopped a neighboring nation from potentially joining, and scarred two other neighbors into the express lane.
Plus, I don’t think that’s really an academically honest opinion. It would be like saying America invaded Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction.
A lot of Ukrainians were not really excited about NATO prosperity until Russia started pulling the same shenanigans they did in Georgia and Moldavia. It’s not exactly a new tactic in Russia’s foreign policy.
In Russia and Eastern Ukraine they did…
The US facilitated the coup in 2014 (at least there’s a smoking gun), Russia tried to join NATO 3 times and got denied, domestically Navalny got propped up by the west. The writing was on the wall…unlike Iraq
You’re reversing cause and effect. First there was the prospect of joining NATO for Ukraine and Georgia then the war in Georgia happened as a response/protest from russia.
Also you’re admitting that the a lot of Ukrainian were not excited about joining NATO, why push for it anyway… not really democratic. Sounds what a puppet government would do
Except that the US said last week that Ukraine WILL join NATO. Its an astounding stupid move when that is precisely what Russia doesnt want to happen. Biden is such a fuck up its astounding. Literally that dick head is pushing us directly into WW3.
Im all for the facts but wasn’t Russia supposed to win in 3 days? I have a hard time believing much of what they say, in my honest opinion
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This was not said by Russia, it was said by US General Milley to the US Congress, when he lost his marbles at first when the war started. Later it surfaced as popular cope when NATO shills found a second to breathe.
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If you think Ukraine won’t muster a guerilla resistance fierce enough to make France blush you haven’t been paying attention.
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What makes you think their gonna start now after it’s been going for more than two years and there even having trouble conscripting in western Ukraine ?
If they’ve ran out of volunteers in the more nationalist west how are they going to find them in the occupied territories where patriotism to Ukraine has always been lower?
Because you have to be occupied before you can do guerilla resistance? Also because guerilla activities require fewer personnel than an armed mobilization?
If Ukraine fell to invasion, as in like their lines collapse and they lose the territory they’re currently holding, now every Ukrainian who might consider fighting is already behind enemy lines. Instead of being concentrated physically and very obviously defending themselves you’d have a very pissed off post-invasion population able to act inside of occupied territory. Look at the resistance fighters in occupied France in WWII. Putin isn’t going to have an easy time even if he manages to push an invasion force through.
Good luck holding a country that fights as hard as Ukraine.
It’s not like Russia haven’t dealt with those before…
That isnt really relevant because Russia would get what they are looking for in the end no matter how much of a resistance there is. All they need to do is finish off their army, and not allow a new government to form and they have achieved their goal.
I’m going to claim my neighbor’s pool as mine, and when they call the cops I’ll blame them for not being willing to negotiate.
False comparison.
Short answer.
It was, I cant really say much about an unrelated hypothetical.
Except that it’s a false comparison with zero explanation. Just enough text to know I should dismiss your opinion.
Good job.
Thank you!
Negotiate what? If they would consent to their genocide?
Sure thing!
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