• Bipta@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Capitalism is surely partly to blame but it’s laughable to identify it as the sole cause.

    • kttnpunk@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I’ll never understand statements like these. Capitalism is the #1 reason there’s a profit incentive for any given thing to be horrible.

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Workers owning a company would also have a profit incentive because the workers would like to make more money.

        • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Workers owning their own company would incentivize creating stable growth, since the workers aren’t going to willfully destroy the company they all have a stake in.

          Whereas now we have unstable growth because the C suites, executives and shareholders milk companies dry and then toss them. They have no concerns about whether the bottom rung guys are sustainable.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You’re going to need to define “stable” and “unstable” growth here.

      • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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        1 year ago

        So it was because of capitalism that the communist revolution killed millions of people around the world.

        Uh, the more you know…

        • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          I think people define capitalism vastly differently. To some capitalism is simply the ability to trade goods for personal profit, which exists in almost every society. To others its the dictionary definition of an economic and political system.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            What you’re missing is that the first group there is populated by idiots.

          • Ubermeisters@lemmy.zip
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            1 year ago

            That’s unfair, you made a valid point, but I’m going to make this goalposts flexible for others

            You, just now

            • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              What? I don’t even have a stake in this debate. I am just pointing out how often I notice that two people seem to be discussing entirely different ideas.

        • kttnpunk@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Actually, yeah. Trade embargos starved those countries and the CIA killed the few real communists who managed to garner any influence, eliminating any real movements towards a marxist ideal

          • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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            1 year ago

            Ah yes, it wasn’t the expropriation and execution/imprisonment of competent farmers and the general failures of central planning, it’s all about them trade embargos.

            • kttnpunk@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Sure, focus on half of what I said rather than actually read the whole thing

              • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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                1 year ago

                Sure, go one and tell us who were the illuminated people touched by the grace of God that were just too powerful to wander around the Earth in the view of the CIA.

                If it wasn’t for those pesky americans, the World would be the perfect kumbaya by now.

                • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Che Geuvara, Salvador Allende, Jacobo Arbenz, Fidel Castro, Martin Luther King Jr (via FBI COINTELPRO, proven in a civil lawsuit) are a few names. Operation Condor, the Vietnam war, the Korean War, the Palmer Raids, and many more examples exist of violent oppression of communists by the US government

                  • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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                    1 year ago

                    As for the people I don’t know Salvador Allende nor Jacobo Arbenz, but Fidel and Che were two bloodthirsty armsmen that just picked up whatever ideology fitted at the time. There is a reason why since then until now people try to escape from Cuba into the US. Also, I believe the US only really took an interest in them when they accepted the Soviet nukes.

                    As for Martin Luther King Jr, he was definitly persecuted, but was it because he was a communist? I’m not sure of that.

                    Do you really want to use the Korean war as an example of the US oppressing communists? Really? You literaly just have to compare how both sides ended up.

      • Ubermeisters@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        I don’t know where you people get this concept. Humans are the issue, not capitalism. There’s literally no functioning system of trade without capitalism. It’s just human nature. We are greedy and we want more than others so that we feel secure in our own future. It’s not fucking rocket scientist, and it’s not fucking capitalism.

        Do you really Envision a world where everyone works equally and gets paid equally and nobody makes extra profit but somehow people are happy? That doesn’t sound like any of the humans I’ve ever known, even the nice ones. You need to be a little bit more realistic and get your childish ass out of the playground.

        We couldn’t even get people to wear masks to not kill each other and you’re over here holding your breath for agapelandia lmao

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            the cost of living is a capitalist concept

            No, it isn’t. Lol

            There are fundamental costs to human survival and those costs must be borne out somewhere. Hunter/gatherers also had a cost of living.

            • bobman@unilem.org
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              1 year ago

              The rising disparity in wealth is a result of capitalism.

              The cost of living is so high because we’re funneling as much money as possible to as few people as possible.

              Every day it gets worse, and this is by design.

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Disparity in wealth does not impact cost of living. That’s nonsensical.

                • bobman@unilem.org
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                  1 year ago

                  Wow. I’m sorry you believe that.

                  Either you’re trolling or woefully ignorant about the world around you. Either way, I can’t communicate with people like you.

                  You need more life experience.

                  Goodbye.

                  • SCB@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    There are no casual factors between wealth disparity and cost of living, and if anything an extreme enough wealth disparity lowers cost of living - serfs had a very low cost of living.

                    Not sure why you felt the need to insult me, but I assure you I need no further life experience to recall historical facts

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                The things people choose to believe never cease to amaze me.

        • kttnpunk@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          There are innumerable functioning systems of trade without capitalism. My point is capitalism is intrinsically violent and wasteful. War is profit. But there ARE mutualist, communalist, and voluntary approaches to labor as well just to name a few. I also have to point out that the gold standard in the case of USD is effectively maintained by a obscenely expansive worldwide military presence which can’t be a good thing long term and how about that ongoing pandemic we don’t talk about? How long can we as species get away with ignoring the real, big, systemic problems? Capitalism is NOT fixing them, and won’t. Regardless you’re real mistaken, I don’t envision some perfect world, dont accuse me of naivety- I’m a tired, jaded anarchist, not a communist. Anyways I am truly sorry you’ve only ever known assholes… I’m not holding my breath for anything just speaking my mind, and maybe I change someone’s, at least I tried

    • Eggyhead@artemis.camp
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      1 year ago

      Frankly it’s laughable to assert there is a sole cause in the first place when there’s a myriad of different people here with a myriad of their own personal factors at play.

    • bobman@unilem.org
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      1 year ago

      “It’s all about the money.”

      You’ll understand when you’re older.