There are so few native desktop apps these days, it’s all on the web.
And the browser can glean a lot more about user interaction than just web traffic, like where you hover, what parts of the page you’re interacting with, etc.
That’s why I said that (combined with phone), Google probably knows more.

But it’s probably a pretty close competition

They also spy, because just a few billion isn’t enough

I feel like MS and Google should be switched. Web probably has more harvestable info. Plus phones.

I’ve fantasized about this.

I had some friends who actually DID build a secret room behind a bookshelf, where they had their home theatre or something like that I forget (they were more like close coworkers of my wife than my own friends, but they were super nice).

What exactly do you think my current position is?

There was never a fig leaf. They already didn’t need to devote any attention to political cover, the USA already made it clear that it wouldn’t tolerate holding Israel or any of the Israeli politicians accountable in international courts.

The difference between the two is purely in wording and absolutely immaterial. If anything, trump is being more honest about it.

Trump is terrible for other reasons, but they’re both equal in this matter

how about his commitment to arm Israel with no strings attached? No humanitarian aid, no cease fires…

Oh you mean exactly like right now?

Anyone who thinks that orange man is an improvement is an idiot. But anyone who thinks Kamala would be better is also an idiot.

Israel is already getting everything they could ever wish for. There is nothing that Trump could offer that they’re not already getting, including protection from the international community.

Increased suffering?
How can their suffering be increased more than it is now?

Israel is already getting everything could have ever wished for. There is nothing trump could do to make that worse.

There were other reasons to vote for Harris, but this wasn’t one.

What will trump do to cause more Palestinian deaths?
What COULD he do?

Israel is already getting everything they wanted, and facing zero consequences or obstacles.

I don’t disagree with you wrt American deaths, but that’s not what this post is about

Notice how you didn’t actually give a reason?

you are inferior for casting aspersions on me, but the aspersions I cast on you show me to be superior

Great job dude.
I can see why you are unable to connect the dots between men setting up the conditions that pressure women to turn in each other, and the women who actually turn on each other.

Great talk 👋👋👋

Sorry you’re not able to follow your own statements to their natural conclusions 👎

I have nearly zero respect for the intellectual capacity of someone who thinks that female gender roles are perpetuated mainly by women, and especially little respect for people who think they’re above social conditioning and that it should be a simple matter for others to shrug it off. It shows a shocking lack of self awareness.
I don’t think there is value in continuing this discussion with you.

If by “loses all meaning” you mean “loses significance” then there is some truth to that, but I leave it up to the general opinion of the people who are put at risk by that loss of significance to decide when it becomes a problem.

Realistically I think that it was probably meant as a half joke, as in its funny in how unserious it is, but also a real criticism in how pervasive this kind of toxic behavior is.
I think that the reply, that men aren’t involved in it, is taking an willfully ignorant stance.

But they’re related. They’re different facets of the same thing: the roles and expectations that society forces people into.

Setting aside what you do and don’t think is impactful, the point is that these are expectations that society puts on people, and where these expectations come from is complex. Have you ever heard of the Five Whys? It can be a helpful way to look at these problems; it can’t capture the complexity but it illustrates that the causes run deep.

For example, there are some pretty easily accessible YouTube videos (podcasts?) on the history of the women’s fashion and cosmetics industries, and how they pivoted their marketing to great effect to sell products to women by pressing these kinds of expectations into society, and those marketing teams contain a lot of men. This doesn’t explain all of history, but it’s an example of what I’m talking about.

And always remember; hurt people hurt people.

The people here who think that marketing doesn’t affect shit like this, or that they’re not affected by marketing, are exactly the kind of easy marks that marketing preys on.

The bar is on the floor for men, and unreasonably high for women.
Women put some of those restrictions on each other, but largely as a byproduct of the society they were raised in.

It’s a privilege in the same way that having a shoulder to cry on is a female privilege.

If you’re going to try to argue that society doesn’t push people into certain roles or to think in certain ways, or that men aren’t also involved in creating the parts of society that determine roles for women, then I don’t think we can have a meaningful exchange.

That’s simply not true. That culture didn’t form in a vacuum. It’s the result of decades of marketing and other societal forces. Everyone bears some responsibility for all subcultures.

Both can be true at the same time. Nothing exists in a vacuum.

It’s hard to find a very of any variety that isn’t a raving douche