Your views are at odds with reality.

And surely you are able to point out what exactly am I wrong about? :)

I’m sorry that your current reality is an aggression into your homeland and that they’re calling on you against your will. That sure sucks.

It sure does :(

But even if goes against your wishes, peace doesn’t exist there (presumably you’re talking from the Ukraine) and liberties are the first thing to go when shit gets real

I am from Ukraine, but thankfully I am not in Ukraine, as I managed to escape it before the war started when it was still possible.
Peace was always possible, but Zelensky and his regime does not want it, because war is what allows him to stay in power and steal millions/billions of dollars.

No one pretended during the world war that they were a free and fair democracy

Zelensky does pretend that Ukraine is free and fair democracy though, and is lying to everyone’s faces that Ukraine is a democratic country that “doesn’t chase people with sticks to the frontlines”. He is a pathological liar, and unfortunately many people believe him.

Good luck with the ruskies, hope they die 2 per 1 shot at your country’s hands for what they’re doing.

The problem is not with “ruskies”, the problem is with Zelensky. Just 1 shot would be enough, and it can’t come soon enough. We can deal with Russia later.

When the left punishes you

When the left punishes you (without them even admitting or realizing it), your country is getting turned into a mass prison and your family, your friends, and you are then slaughtered in a war, all to the applause of the left, praising your dictatorial government for being heroes.
And then, when you try to show people what’s happening in your own country, the atrocities your own government is committing upon you, the left tries to silence you until you get slaughtered, or until it becomes irrelevant and everybody moves on and forgets about it.
That’s how the left punishes you.

At least with a loss of opportunities, you still have your life and other guaranteed freedoms to find a different opportunity.

Please tell me, and every other Ukrainian, how our life and “other guaranteed freedoms” is going? How we are able to leave the country if we want to, how we are not kidnapped from the streets (and soon will be from our homes) and sent to die? Please tell me more about it.

it is conservative/ right wing parties pushing for heavier surveillance of citizens.

My experience is totally different, although of course I don’t know the situation in whatever country you’re from.
Arguably, the main reason for surveillance (being able to read your communication) is to be able to censor you (prevent you from posting/saying things somebody else doesn’t like) or even punish you for something you say.
And I don’t see how can anyone argue that it is not the left that wants to censor everything and punish people for things they say :)

If somebody wants to actually try arguing it, please answer the following question (in parentheses I’ll leave the suggested answer 😉, but let me know if yours are different)

• Why is almost every free speech site is a right-wing site, and not a left-wing one? (because they are extremist, and we need to censor and jail them! but it is okay, because they are the bad ones and we are the good ones.)
• Is it okay to criticize alphabet people (and call them alphabet people ig 🙃), post statistics of violent crimes by race, and generally speak bad about minorities? (nooo, you can’t do that, we should protect minorities no matter what the reality is, you should be censored and jailed!)
• Is it okay to tell people what is actually happening in Ukraine and what atrocities Zelensky’s regime is committing? (nooo, you can’t do that, you’re a fascist and/or russian bot/propagandist, it’s all a lie even if you provide us with credible/primary sources, we should censor you as soon as possible for propaganda or misinformation or something and definitely jail you!)

I bet you blame the Palestinians for the bombing of Raffa.

Well, you’ve just lost your bet. I condemn both the genocide of Palestinians (done by the USA through Israel), and the genocide of Ukrainians (done again mostly by the USA through Ukrainian government. Damn, those guys really do like massacring people all around the globe :/, almost like they are the bad guys, hm…).

You would blame World War II on the Polish.

Nope, I don’t, good thing you didn’t make a bet on it, otherwise you’d lose two bets in a row.
But I do blame Poland for participating in massacring Ukrainians though. In fact, Poland is among the worst offenders! It helps “heroes” of Ukrainian border guard to catch those who try to escape Zelensky’s meatgrinder, who then get sent straight to the meatgrinder… For that reason, people mostly escape to Romania. Thankfully, Romania is not as sadistic as the rest of the democratic & free world.

Not like that!
Others (preferably Ukrainians, we don’t consider them humans anyway, right?) should go and destroy Russia instead of me, I should be lying comfortably on my bed commenting how we should destroy Russia!
/s

Allowing Ukraine to defend itself is just the right thing to do.

Sure, supporting authoritarian government that forces desperate people trapped in Ukraine to die for their interest and political games is the right thing to do.

It is easy to support a genocide when it is not you and not your family that are getting massacred by Zelensky.

I don’t use it either, but wikipedia (and common knowledge) suggests they do like censoring everything https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Facebook

Oh no, they don’t censor every opinion I don’t like, don’t remove every post that does not align with my worldviews as disinformation, and don’t forbid people to say bad words towards me while allowing me to do same towards them, what a horrible place!

I’m hearing this argument over and over again, yet for some reason no one can explain whether giving up land to an invader is always unacceptable, or are there some exceptions? Maybe it’s how long ago the land was taken?
I suspect it’s the latter, and this time period is greater than 10 years (because Crimea is still “rightfully Ukrainian”, right?), but less than a few hundred years (because all the other invaded territories now “rightfully belong to the invader”.
You do understand that almost every piece of land on this planet, that belongs to country A, was conquered from another country B (or from a tribe B if we go long enough into the history, or from family B if go even further, or from some other entity if we go even further)?
Should Poland invade Ukraine to retake Lviv?
Should Finland invade Russia to retake Karelia?
Should Mexico invade USA to retake California?
Should every country in Europe invade every other country in Europe because they all hold some territories that belonged to a different country some time back?

Wow, my comment got removed because it is “misinformation / propaganda”.
You surely guys are open to a civil discussion based on facts :)

Removed by mod

What?

crimes against Ukrainians

Surely this also applies to current USA administration turning Ukraine into prison that is almost impossible to escape and where men are treated worse then dogs?

Ah, so justification is - they do something bad, so we will do something bad as well (not towards them tho).
Got it

WDYM?

You cannot tell the difference between Russia and the Free World? What is wrong with you man?

Is it Russia that kidnaps Ukrainians on the streets and sends them to die? The last time I checked it was Zelensky’s regime.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us-intelligence-believes-putin-probably-didn-t-order-his-rival-navalny-s-killing-report-claims/ar-AA1nLp5U

There’s nothing I can say to arguing that “killing Ukrainians is okay because they are killed ‘for the greater good of stopping a miniHitler’” as well. I don’t find it morally correct to kill people that done nothing wrong.

And also,

“31,000 killed, 7,000–8,000 missing”

Is lower than even Ukrainian propaganda is saying, it’s twice that number for the first year of war (US estimate), so about 4 times that number as of now, by US estimate.

Doesn’t mind joining EU?

Why are you asking me? It’s a publicly available info, not my opinion.

Oh, because I assume 2014 was a coup and not people being mad at the president refusing to sign a trade agreement with the EU and choosing closer ties to russia despite promises right?

From wikipedia:
A sudden appropriation of leadership or power; a takeover.

Seems to suit that definition.

Like those negotiations where russia promised not to attack Ukraine if they gave up their nukes, yeah.

Yeah, they did that. Now, would you please be so kind to tell me about a country that never broke any internation laws, agreements, etc.? Pro tip: you can’t.
Does it mean that nobody should negotiate with each anymore because we all did bad things in the past, and we should instead just kill each other?

And I find it hilarious that you’re rooting for the perpetrators of the Bucha massacre. I guess none of your friends were there so that was fine. Well, if that’s what your logic dictates, very well. Good luck with that.

Yes, thankfully none of my friends were there.
But this is again an unfair comparison!
According to the wikipedia - a few hundred people were murdered there. Let’s add to that a few thousand more civilians that were killed by Russian forces. Let’s say it is a ten thousand, give or take. This is a horrible number. Yet the number of people killed/wounded by Zelensky’s regime is an order of fucking magnitude greater than that! Estimated to be in hundreds of thousands!
If you were given an option where you could die with 1% chance or with 10% chance, which option would you choose? I think for most people the answer is clearly the former. My logic indeed dictates that, and I would choose it every time. Does your logic say otherwise?
So you’re damn right I’m rooting for the “perpetrators of the Bucha massacre” instead of “perpetrators of mass genocide of Ukrainians”. If there was a good side to root for, I would. But there isn’t. So I support the side that I consider the lesser evil, the side which gives Ukrainians a hope of survival.

But yeah, either you’re a very naïve ukranian or more likely what I’ve been saying from the start.

Could you please explain to me, how does “rooting for” the side that increases the chance of survival for my family and all the other Ukrainians mean that I am naïve?
Or if you think what you’ve “been saying from the start” (basically that Mr. Putin pays me to write comments on lemmy), why do you think so? Why isn’t it logical for a Ukrainian to hope that Russia will win? I argumented my position, that it’s as simple as increasing the chance of survival for oneself and their family. Isn’t that the most precious thing one has?