It’s interesting how all sorts of stories from 9 years ago get warmed up these days to show the war crimes of one side. Makes me zone out

They can stop him doing business in Europe.

I thought so too until this week. These days I’m reconsidering. /c/all is as least as bad a shit hole with this unhinged hate on Jews as /r/all with their white supremacy fascism.

You know what’s tyranny? When your dictatotship refuses to even accept the existence of their neighbors, who’s collaboration you dearly need for survival let alone a life worth living.

While we’re waiting, did musk respond? His 24 hours are over

Just as the reactionary Republicans who accuse the democrats of all sorts of foul play that’s in their playbook, this whole comment looks to me like projection.

Using the population as shields, by hiding weapons and militants in hospitals and schools is what the Palestinian combatants have done for _years decades. Etc

You have a few points, the Israeli government has long been gone across any reasonable state of mind.

But the whole mindset you describe did not originate in Israel. This whole situation is waaay less one sided than you make it appear. And it changed significantly last weekend, initiated with a terror attack of unprecedented scale by the Hamas.

Ok, I guess then there is no logic to understand. I’ll stop trying. Have a good day.

Ok, so before 1918, the Ottomans had that piece of land for about 400 years. I guess that makes a turkish claim is older, and therefore stronger, by your logic, am I right?

Before that there was the Mamluks for 200 years, but that doesn’t seem an ethnicity that’s notable today, so let’s forget that.

Before that, the cruzaders had that land for 200 years, I suppose that means Europe also has an older claim.

Before that, Arabs for 400 years, so I see we’re back to their claim.

But hold on, before that, it was Roman territory for a whopping 700 years. That’s notable. Italia has a really good claim, I’d say.

But even before, there were the Jews there, and for close to a thousand years. So, following your logic the state Israel has all right to be there.

Before that there also lived people, of course, but it’s hard to pinpoint those to ethnicity. Egypt was there shortly. That’s an older claim even, but not very long.

Hmm. Are now all those people justified in killing innocents on some grounds that hasn’t been “theirs” for generations?

Oh really? Then we’d have war everywhere. There is no place on earth that was not at some point taken by force by this or that group of people.

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Again, what’s the justification for killing innocents? Because they walk on land that another claims theirs? That sort of thinking always and everywhere only led to war and war crimes.

As for the Israelis, for those who live there, it’s their home, for many going back three generations. In many cases those ancestors took it it legally under ottoman law. I find that 24-undisputed-hour-rule questionable myself, but your story doesn’t hold up legally in many cases, nor historical. Everyone’s ancestors lived someplace. That doesn’t automatically make that place theirs.

Pointing to an old map and claiming the territory that another currently occupies never leads to peace.

Now you named one factor that explains this mess, and no objection here. But I’m still missing the answer how killing innocents can be justified.

It seems to me that you think that every person that lives in Israel is responsible for everything that the Israeli government did over the years.

How is that any different from this weeks retaliation that this Israel government hands out over the massacres of citizens by hamas from last weekend?

I understand. you list here injustice that when experienced are beyond words.

Now tell me: in what cases does is the punishment of innocents justified?

I was equating killing innocents with killing innocents, nothing else.

You are justifying mass punishment with …something about your daughter, and with that exposing exactly the attitude that keeps the region in a never ending cycle of death.

Not with that attitude.

Eye witness report “ Gunmen chased fleeing revellers across the desert, shooting and snatching people.”

And many very similar stories, including brutal rape and beheadings.

I continue calling your words lies.

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Are you saying the only options are handing out collective punishment or accepting death?

First, that’s doubtable. But if so, I’d indeed accept death. I’m not killing innocents.

I’d rather die than become a living monster.

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Thanks! That’s the sort of answer that I hoped for.