Somehow this is the only country on earth where this seems to happen. When talking about shootings involving guns, okay, fine, the US is certainly an outlier there, but every country has cars and police.
This is murder.
Somehow this is the only country on earth where this seems to happen. When talking about shootings involving guns, okay, fine, the US is certainly an outlier there, but every country has cars and police.
This is murder.
With all of these women being charged with murder for abortions, are we going to see these police punished for killing an innocent bystander (the baby)?
The mother was not innocent in this. A vehicle is a deadly weapon. She fucked around, and found out. I do feel sorry for the unborn child though. I wish there were a way they could have stopped the car non-violently that didn’t violate our freedoms. Vehicle immobilizers that police could use seem a ham-fisted solution – If she was let go, and running from the police as she clearly intended to do, she could have easily harmed someone or killed someone else. Just because you’re ready to jump on the “Poleece bad mkay” train…at least look at this further than just the incident at hand. She was fleeing, and probably panicking. She was a harm to others and stopping her was probably the right call. How else are you supposed to stop someone with a 3000lb death machine in a parking lot full of pedestrians?
Where are the people suggesting what could have been done better here? Because I don’t see them. I see stupid platitudes of “oh you could have let her go and arrested her at her house”…come on. She was a danger to the pedestrians in the parking lot there. If she was allowed to just try and race home, how many other people could have been put at risk because of her panic?
You’re joking, right? Right?
Nobody called her a bitch, first off. Second off, I agree that it’s stupid that as a citizen, we’re expected to keep calm and act rationally in these kinds of situations. It sucks but it is what it is. My wife got arrested for “DUI” but she and I don’t drink or do drugs – she didn’t try and run away, she complied with the officer, got taken to jail, bailed out, and we solved it in front of a jury of her peers. That’s how this shit works.
Additionally, nobody knows if this woman was innocent or not. Claiming that she IS, or ISN’T is bullshit either way.
If she IS, we should be discussing why our people feel the need to steal in order to survive.
If she ISN’T, we should be discussing how to keep people calmer during these types of police interactions.
The facts here are though, that she evaded police with a vehicle that was a potential harm to others, and the police stopped it.
Good to know that if the police murdered your wife for not exactly following their orders you would still be defending them since I assume you are not a total hypocrite.
My best friend was shot and killed for trying to break into a neighbors lawn trailer. Initially I was mad at the guy (what person wouldn’t be?) - but over time, I realized that he had made those decisions on his own, and he suffered the consequences of them.
If my wife had done the same thing and gotten herself killed - I’d do the same thing probably. Probably be mad at police initially, then mad at her for choosing to do something so stupid. But in the end, I wouldn’t blame the police unless they did something unreasonable. My wife was having a medical episode at the time, and genuinely probably needed to be taken to the hospital instead of being arrested, but the fact of the matter is she was swerving in and out of traffic so their pulling her over ultimately was a good thing. She could have gotten my son that was riding with her killed.
Liar.
His name is Brett Lee Canada, you’re welcome to look it up. It happened in Lake County, FL. I don’t know what they do with police records of people who are deceased, but that information is there if you want to confirm my honesty.
Nevermind, I did the work for you: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2010/01/03/shooting-death-prompts-lawsuit-3/
The lawsuit went forward and the gentleman was found to have been within his rights to have shot Brett.
So now you can apologize.
Calling her a bitch would’ve actually been much kinder than implying she deserved to be murdered
The worst of faith.
No, maybe not, but I’m not sure “she fucked around and found out” is any better of a way to refer to a woman that was just murdered.
So then why was the woman at fault for getting scared and trying to flee? “She fucked around and found out”, huh?
No, regardless of if she were guilty of the extremely heinous and dangerous crime of shoplifting (the horror!), what we SHOULD be discussing is why the cop felt the need to draw his gun and point it at the woman for such a small crime (of which he had zero evidence I might add) that could have been handled a million other ways. Drawing a gun on somebody is a direct threat on their life. You may as well yell “obey or die”. Under no circumstances should a gun be used so freely. She had every single right to be scared out of her mind and try to escape at that moment.
Even if we go with your opinion of her being a threat to the public, the officers are directly responsible for that and never should have let it get to that point in the first place over a god-damned shoplifting accusation. I mean fucking hell, the victim does not actually start driving forward until the cop is pointing his gun at her and screaming at her to get out of the car. Stop blaming her for the extremely excessive threat (and execution) of a police officer.
It’s not police policy to kill fleeing suspects, plenty of jurisdictions even choose not to pursue. So the answer to those questions is that yes, they absolutely could have let her drive away, as some other police forces already do without issue.
Aside from that, even if they decided to pursue, it is not police policy anywhere to use deadly force to stop a fleeing subject unless it becomes an acute danger to the public. A fleeing subject who has yet to break 10 MPH does not fall under that description, not here, not anywhere.
And here’s a question, if it was such a deadly situation for this officer, how did he not get injured? He was already safely out of the way of the vehicle by the time any of his bullets had an effect. Because he’s not a fucking invalid and can side step a car, which he put himself in front of to begin with, pulling out of a parking spot.
Do you feel safer today because this woman is dead? Does anyone?
Yes, those policies refer to fleeing suspects who pose no danger to the public. Fleeing in a vehicle poses a danger to the public. That’s why they pit-maneuver vehicles fleeing on the highway.
Great, they didn’t allow her to break 10mph, it means they did their job.
The deadly situation doesn’t apply JUST to the officer – they are meant to protect the public. It’s just like computer security, someone good at their job doesn’t have anything happen. They stop the problem before it becomes a problem. You’re not good at your job because you LET the system get infected first.
Ditto for policing, you don’t wait for them to hurt others in order to justify stopping them after - they were already being detained. If you begin driving off with pedestrians around and the police want you out of your vehicle, they have a legitimate reason to stop you using whatever force is necessary.
If she is just running away? Hell no, the force isn’t justified here. It’s her being in the car that causes the force to be justified. Same with if a person had a gun, or a knife, she has a weapon…the car.
So you plan on volunteering to be hit between a car and a wall at 10mph to show how not-deadly it is? Because I’ll concede my point if you do. If you don’t want to do it, ask yourself why… it’s probably because a 3000lb object traveling at 10mph can be deadly; despite your protests to the contrary.
Nothing that you’ve stated here can objectively determine that these police officers did anything wrong, your political biases are at play here rather than a good neutral look at reality.
Please return to reddit where right wing trolls are actually not universally hated. They are here.
A pit maneuver isn’t an attempt to kill the driver.
There is no evidence she was a danger to anyone in that parking lot. None. Zero. Pulling out of a parking spot does not make you a deadly threat. There’s no amount of imagination of what could go wrong that makes it so.
Have the police even used the threat to the public as justification for this shooting? If not, why are you making that argument for them? The only issue I’ve seen them raise was the danger to the officer who fired the shot.
There’s no such thing as objective right and wrong, we’re not discussing a measurable experiment here. I’m biased against the unnecessary loss of life. I’m biased against police murdering pregnant women (or anyone, of course). I’m biased against our police being far more violent than any of our contemporaries. If that makes me “politically biased” in your eyes, so be it. I’d much rather be on that end of bias than the other.
I’m biased against the unnecessary loss of life as well, which is why I make decisions that limit the opportunities for it to happen. To place all of the blame on the police here is shortsighted and makes no effort into holding the person accountable for their actions as well.
So in short. She made decisions that led to her own demise. She could have made better ones, and she didn’t. Her death, was a result of the choices she made. The police were within the guidelines they are permitted to act upon. I don’t see anything they did here that could have been done objectively better. I’d have preferred they taze her, but it looked like the window was up in her vehicle. I would have loved for this whole thing to turn out differently, but it didn’t.
I’m just not simply going to place the blame on the police in this situation, as I don’t see them as having overstepped any lines.
Police do terrible, horrible shit every damn day. But I’m not going to blindly react to every public interaction with police in a demonizing manner without looking at the objective reality. The reality of the situation here is that she made the wrong decision and ultimately paid for it. I wish it wouldn’t happen, but I’m not going to fault the police officers for this one. There are many worse incidences to point out, and claiming that this one was one of the bad ones just dilutes the argument when police truly do something out of line.
What do you suggest be done otherwise that would have objectively stopped this woman? What other manner of detainment was available here? Does your solution put others at risk? How can we move towards implementing solutions for police that doesn’t ultimately also put their life at risk when encountering people who would otherwise disregard their own safety?
He could have not jumped in front of the car for starters.
There was no risk to anyone in letting her drive home. Fuck right off with all your deadly weapon bullshit that’s already been called out. Take her license plate, let her drive home, and deal with the accusations later. No one gets hurt, problem solved.
Yeah, because that’s what we do when someone is criminally resisting, we…let them go! Are you listening to yourself objectively right now?
Oh there’s a guy who just robbed a bank and shot 2 tellers? Don’t shoot him, just let him go. We’ll just put out a warrant for his arrest and pick him up later!
Wut…
There was risk in letting her drive home. That part is clear. She was already willing to attempt running over an officer. Your argument is that the officer shouldn’t have stepped in front of the car? Seriously? She was told to get out of the car. Not to leave. The idea behind stepping in front of the car is that most people would have the sense enough NOT to try and run someone over with that car. She didn’t. She suffered those consequences.
If a police officer told you to step out of the car and they had someone in front, would you attempt to run him over? I sure as fuck wouldn’t. But because he’s a police officer and you’ve already made up your mind about him, you don’t mind excusing HIS life, and you’ll make all sorts of arguments for hers.
It’s pretty clear that this argument isn’t in good faith from you. You’re not willing to use logic and a baseline of morality on a level playing field across all actors in this event. You’ve discounted her actions, and aren’t willing to even budge on the argument that she shouldn’t do what she did.
Life lesson kids: If you don’t want to get killed by a police officer…don’t attempt to run over them with your car.
She was accused of shoplifting.
Jesus Christ.
But again. It isn’t policy to always immediately go after a fleeing person. You are ignoring that she steered away from the officer and he deliberately put himself in front of her. You are ignoring that she went incredibly slowly. The cops, plural, as in other cops who could have gotten in their cars and created a barricade, were also present. There were numerous things they could have done rather than murder her. But I guess it’s only the murder victim who did anything wrong and the cops are perfect.
Listen to yourself right now. Not only are you putting words in my mouth with the “cops are perfect” shtick, but you’re completely dismissing the womans actions. You’re making an excuse for literally everything she did. Meanwhile in my replies, I’ve mentioned and even suggested ways police could have done things better.
All cops are bad. I agree with that. But I don’t agree with “All cops are bad all the time in every situation whatsoever”.
This is unacceptable. Ohio won’t have exceptions for incest and the health of the mother, but they will have exceptions if the mother allegedly commits a crime and is innocent until proven guilty under our legal system?
Anyone who is pro life and not furious about this is a fucking craven hypocrite.
I’m not “pro-life”. Hell, I don’t value human life at all for the most part. Most people are fucking idiot trash. But I do believe that if we’re passing laws that put women on murder charges for aborting, police should be held to that same standard. If they kill a child due to their enforcement actions, that should be considered killing an innocent bystander and should be held accountable for that. (And let’s be fair, the only reason they want to keep people from aborting is because you’re not producing another wage-slave for the nation to work to death)
Also, obviously I wish this situation turned out differently. I don’t want police everywhere to have short-range vehicle immobilizers, because like anything, police WILL abuse any power put into their possession. But on the same hand, I think to myself that maybe if they did have immobilizers, police chases, people running over others with vehicles, etc would be a much more solvable problem. Many police interactions involving cars become dangerous quickly.
Everyone here on lemmy is so caught up in their own preconceptions that they aren’t replying to have a discussion - they’re replying to issue their rebuttal because they’re caught up in an emotional reaction.
Ideally this whole incident could have gone better – but I don’t know of a solution that would give the police the ability to detain this woman with the actions she was willing to take. Except obviously my idea of short-range vehicle immobilizers. But if you give that ability to the police, others will find it and hack it, abuse it, etc. So I don’t think in the long run it would work.
You could maybe equip them with some sort of tire-destroying vehicle immobilizer, something that permanently stuck into the tire - but given how tough tires are, it’s not something that could easily be carried around.
The MOST reasonable idea here was that the police shoot her tires out - but I don’t know the dynamics between bullets and tires so I’m unsure if that would be dangerous to bystanders or not.