President Donald Trump told Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele he wanted to send "homegrown criminals" to El Salvador next and encouraged Bukele to build more prisons.
I keep seeing this advice but honestly I’d rather spend years in a El Salavadorean prison wrongly convicted with the hope of being freed than die immediately in a hail of bullets, or be rightfully imprisoned for life for killing a cop.
It’s purely a numbers thing. You shoot at a cop and you die. You go in a concentration camp and you might die. Even if it’s very likely, just personally speaking, I’d take that over certain death.
I really don’t think we’re clearly thinking this through. I know my next door neighbor, but if the guy three doors down has a circle of cops outside a) I might not even know depending on the amount of noise, b) I’m not going to go shooting cops in the back if I just see them.
And when does this start? Have you shot a cop yet? Are you planning shooting cops today? Tomorrow? Next month? In 6 months?
I don’t think anyone is coming out of El Salvador. And I think if I did there is an excellent chance if I did survive it, I will wish I had been killed instead. I don’t think they have women’s prisons down there and if they did I would 100% be sent to the men’s. I used to learn about the Holocaust and wonder “why didn’t the Jews fight back?” And the truth is that some of them did, but most did not they didn’t have access to guns and they just hoped they would get through it.
When school kids are learning about the American Holocaust I don’t want to be one of the victims that kids wonder “why didn’t the trans Americans fight back?”
ICE needs to be resisted at every level. By Congress, by the states, by cities, and by individuals. I only have discretion over myself. I don’t want to shoot anybody, but I don’t want to die in a mass grave in Cuba or El Salvador either.
Will it work? Probably not. Am I talking tough on the internet? I hope I never find out the answer to that. But I know that if Americans decide to stop ICE as a group we could, even if Congress and the courts and so on are compromised.
The concept that “if jews had guns” the holocaust wouldn’t have happened was deliberate inflammatory rhetoric and propaganda from the NRA and US right wing talk radio (Rush Limbaugh et al) and is not based in fact or truth, and only arose in the 1990s as a last ditch attempt to prevent (American) gun control laws.
Intellectually and philosophically the problem with the argument is that you are imagining an entirely fictional past (Jews having guns in the Weimar Republic) and claiming that the imagined fantasy past proves that the real history and present would have successfully been altered. It would be as logical to claim that if Jews had dynamite, or chainsaws, or wore plate armor, or carried a magical talisman, or memorized a specific poem they could have prevented the holocaust. All of which, including guns, is extremely improbable at best.
And so is the case here. I asked another commenter when they expected to start killing cops, and how many they expect to kill. No reply. I’m not telling you or recommending you do it, I just find it interesting that everyone telling me to kill cops on sight isn’t doing it themselves.
You pivot to “we need to stop ICE” but I don’t want to lose the focus of this discussion which was suggesting that I open fire on police officers on sight as a solution to this political problem.
If ICE comes for you or someone you would fight to protect, I think you should consider it. Trump said he wants Bukele to build five more prisons. He signed and order and bid a contract to expand Guantanamo to 30k beds. No one is coming back from Cuba or El Salvador until Trump is out of office and even if he doesn’t succeed in his third term plans there are no guarantees any one person would survive until then. Or that the next administration will do anything for the prisoners.
I don’t want anyone to be shot, but our lives on on the line.
It’s OK to not want to harm another person. Another thing that may be more important is to prepare yourself to handle some intense questioning along with threats of winding up in a place like that (if you think your chances are better in there). I’m not judging you but don’t be a rat
The official stance is that nobody will ever get out of that prison alive. Literally. It’s one very specific prison, and it’s reduced El Salvador’s violent crime rate to damn near zero because of how fucked up that prison is, and how little due process you’ll receive if you even just get caught having gang tattoos. They don’t need to connect you to any specific crime.
You’ll share the cell with like 40 other dudes, and you all share one communal water barrel and one communal shit pit. The food is specifically designed to not be nutritious enough to sustain any muscle mass. You’ll wish for death in there, but you can’t even commit suicide by another inmate. Even suicide by guard is hard to pull off.
This is in comparison to getting in a firefight with the police? I’m sorry, but yes, I’d rather take my chances. Shooting at the police is, even if the odds are close, more likely to get you killed.
Death is far from the worst thing that can happen to someone. We all must walk with the reaper some day. I would much rather die on my feet than live on my knees. CECOT is not living, it is Hell. I would infanetly prefer to go to Valhalla than CECOT.
I keep seeing this advice but honestly I’d rather spend years in a El Salavadorean prison wrongly convicted with the hope of being freed than die immediately in a hail of bullets, or be rightfully imprisoned for life for killing a cop.
You can imagine being freed from a concentration camp but can’t imagine successful community defense.
Cops don’t want to die in a hail of bullets either. There are more of us than them.
It’s purely a numbers thing. You shoot at a cop and you die. You go in a concentration camp and you might die. Even if it’s very likely, just personally speaking, I’d take that over certain death.
The important part is to not be the only person with the gun around. Personal defence won’t do much but community defense might.
But seriously. Nobody is coming back from El Salvador. If ICE comes for you you might as well take one with you.
I really don’t think we’re clearly thinking this through. I know my next door neighbor, but if the guy three doors down has a circle of cops outside a) I might not even know depending on the amount of noise, b) I’m not going to go shooting cops in the back if I just see them.
And when does this start? Have you shot a cop yet? Are you planning shooting cops today? Tomorrow? Next month? In 6 months?
I dont buy it.
I don’t think anyone is coming out of El Salvador. And I think if I did there is an excellent chance if I did survive it, I will wish I had been killed instead. I don’t think they have women’s prisons down there and if they did I would 100% be sent to the men’s. I used to learn about the Holocaust and wonder “why didn’t the Jews fight back?” And the truth is that some of them did, but most did not they didn’t have access to guns and they just hoped they would get through it.
When school kids are learning about the American Holocaust I don’t want to be one of the victims that kids wonder “why didn’t the trans Americans fight back?”
ICE needs to be resisted at every level. By Congress, by the states, by cities, and by individuals. I only have discretion over myself. I don’t want to shoot anybody, but I don’t want to die in a mass grave in Cuba or El Salvador either.
Will it work? Probably not. Am I talking tough on the internet? I hope I never find out the answer to that. But I know that if Americans decide to stop ICE as a group we could, even if Congress and the courts and so on are compromised.
The concept that “if jews had guns” the holocaust wouldn’t have happened was deliberate inflammatory rhetoric and propaganda from the NRA and US right wing talk radio (Rush Limbaugh et al) and is not based in fact or truth, and only arose in the 1990s as a last ditch attempt to prevent (American) gun control laws.
Intellectually and philosophically the problem with the argument is that you are imagining an entirely fictional past (Jews having guns in the Weimar Republic) and claiming that the imagined fantasy past proves that the real history and present would have successfully been altered. It would be as logical to claim that if Jews had dynamite, or chainsaws, or wore plate armor, or carried a magical talisman, or memorized a specific poem they could have prevented the holocaust. All of which, including guns, is extremely improbable at best.
And so is the case here. I asked another commenter when they expected to start killing cops, and how many they expect to kill. No reply. I’m not telling you or recommending you do it, I just find it interesting that everyone telling me to kill cops on sight isn’t doing it themselves.
You pivot to “we need to stop ICE” but I don’t want to lose the focus of this discussion which was suggesting that I open fire on police officers on sight as a solution to this political problem.
Opening fire on sight was never my suggestion.
If ICE comes for you or someone you would fight to protect, I think you should consider it. Trump said he wants Bukele to build five more prisons. He signed and order and bid a contract to expand Guantanamo to 30k beds. No one is coming back from Cuba or El Salvador until Trump is out of office and even if he doesn’t succeed in his third term plans there are no guarantees any one person would survive until then. Or that the next administration will do anything for the prisoners.
I don’t want anyone to be shot, but our lives on on the line.
It’s OK to not want to harm another person. Another thing that may be more important is to prepare yourself to handle some intense questioning along with threats of winding up in a place like that (if you think your chances are better in there). I’m not judging you but don’t be a rat
Some things are worse than death and can be sustained without any form of honesty or due process right here in the United States
The official stance is that nobody will ever get out of that prison alive. Literally. It’s one very specific prison, and it’s reduced El Salvador’s violent crime rate to damn near zero because of how fucked up that prison is, and how little due process you’ll receive if you even just get caught having gang tattoos. They don’t need to connect you to any specific crime.
You’ll share the cell with like 40 other dudes, and you all share one communal water barrel and one communal shit pit. The food is specifically designed to not be nutritious enough to sustain any muscle mass. You’ll wish for death in there, but you can’t even commit suicide by another inmate. Even suicide by guard is hard to pull off.
I’d honestly take the bullet over CECOT.
You’d change your mind on this while you go through torture
What if I told you it won’t be very many years, and it’ll also be the rest of your life?
So there’s a dock at your door today and you peep through the window and you see four cops, you just start blasting? I don’t buy it.
I mean, if by “years” you mean less than a year, killed, and buried in a mass grave in El Salvador than sure.
This is in comparison to getting in a firefight with the police? I’m sorry, but yes, I’d rather take my chances. Shooting at the police is, even if the odds are close, more likely to get you killed.
You don’t come out alive from those prisons and it’s gonna hurt more than bullets
Death is far from the worst thing that can happen to someone. We all must walk with the reaper some day. I would much rather die on my feet than live on my knees. CECOT is not living, it is Hell. I would infanetly prefer to go to Valhalla than CECOT.