The yellow badge was part of a racist ideology based on eugenics pseudoscience.
This is not race or ethnicity based or part of a political movement. However, if you are a conservative Christian who believes that a virgin gave birth, that Sunday bread has supernatural properties, and listen to the Pope and religious sermons on a regular basis, then YES, IT DOES AFFECT YOUR FETAL PAIN STUDY when you clearly are trying to outlaw abortion because your religion wants that.
My wanting to know the religious bias of someone believing in illogical fairy tale bullshit is not the equivalent of Nazism, who would have put someone like me to death many times over. I don’t want bullshit to taint science. It’s an understandable request. The atheists of the world have been dealing with religious bullshit for so long, it’s fair to want real data.
If we had the religious bias of scientists clearly known, it would be illuminating in many ways, including scientific equivalency which has become the new moral equivalency.
Right now you have “one the one hand, these 90 scientists believe we are all going to die from global warming but these 10 scientists think this is a normal trend”
I would MUCH rather have “on the one hand, these 90 scientists who believe the world is governed by math think we are all going to die from global warming, and these 10 catholic scientists who think a virgin got pregnant and gave birth without sexual fertilization and that jesus will always protect the planet think this is a normal trend”
this is not a ridiculous or fascist position and religious bullshit has infected climate science, and studying psychology, and led to justifications for racism and homophobia and OFTEN results in scientific conclusions that conveniently seem to at first line up with religion… until more and more data eventually proves it to be bullshit. This is not about discrimination. I want bullshit out of the data set.
I understand your position and I get what you are going for, but…
I submit to you Ayn Rand.
Atheists can be giant pieces of shit, too.
She used her atheism to argue for the benefit of selfishness and promoted dumbass “great men” theories of humanity. She was not Christian but ascribed to similar belief in the need for bullshit heirarchies with lazy fucking losers stealing the value created by labor sitting at the top.
Like her daddy before communism. Waaah so sad for daddy’s violently fascist supporting little girl.
So I don’t think it would solve as much as you think.
Humans are not rational creatures. We are rationalizing creatures and we can rationalize and justify almost anything to ourselves for any reason, religion isn’t needed for it. Rand and many others are fine examples of it. She rationalized it because she was a rich kid who had her riches taken back by workers and she didn’t like that.
Humans are bullshitters, removing religion won’t change that.
Like does anyone think Donald Trump is seriously, actually religious? Anyone? A guy like him would exist with or without religion.
And, do you think, that a scientist who happens to be LGBTQ, doing a study on monkey sexuality, is able to be not biased by their worldview?
That because they seem to agree with you they’re immune from bias and are therefore totally trustworthy?
How pedantic do you want to get?
Either the science is good or it’s not. Either the study was conducted to minimize bias, the data is clean, and the conclusions come from verified evidence, or it’s not. We don’t need to know what particular flavor of human someone is- everyone is biased. Most studies are funded by private interest, and opening people up to rampant discrimination isn’t going to change that.
Some people can be religious and understand metaphor: some people can be atheist and understand metaphor. Some prime can be religious and interpret religion literally: as can some atheists (eg ” those people believe all the species on earth fit on a boat" when obviously, many religious don’t). I’m reading statements that make good points, either way. Maybe peer review being more stringent would address a lot?
and let reason one day remove your cognitive short-comings and bestow you with hate for the injustice minorities have had to suffer at the hands of the religious
Why do religious types always drop this when they really have nothing to say? “Oh I believe in something that is so hateful and has caused many pain but why are you so angry?!!? Omg poor thing! Bless you!.”.This is how I know someone isn’t truly following these things with their heart. They’re following it to feel superior to those who don’t believe or who don’t practice the way they do. I’ve never seen hate like religious hate.
they do this when they have nothing to say AND lack power
if this religious person had power and knew who I was and where I was, and there was a government of like-minded religious dullards, they would be more than willing to light the first twig
It’s only “oh you poor thing” because my logic has over-whelmed their feeble religious brain like a tidal wave subsuming the shore and they are falling back on delusions of “i hope this person receives mercy.,… because they are so EVIL!!! and the sky god knows all!!!”
it’s meaningless blather that tells you nothing of the true destructive power of religious idiots
the funniest part to me is i grew up in a ‘new age’ ‘way of living’ (“it’s not a religion, it’s a state of mind”,“it’s not a church, it’s a community center”) i only betrayed my family by becoming a christian maybe a decade ago. i remember making the conscious decision the summer between 4th and 5th grade that i would do everything in my power to be the best human being possible, better than anyone ever was, i prayed and i told god that i wouldn’t even curse, and i remember at least feeling that i had tried so hard to achieve that, and god never even made my life better, i don’t even want to linger on what could have had me so desperate and questioning at that age, but i became an out and open atheist from that point, the thing is i never stopped reading, and i never stopped questioning. Philip K Dick is one of my favourite authors, especially reading Radio Free Albemuth, and more so the actual reality of his history and what the guy went through. have you ever heard of a guy Theodore Sturgeon? i would personally recommend More Than Human and Godbody. you need to understand that the very concept and idea of such a force has been going on longer than the now western Christ, and once i chose to stop fighting humanity and to worship it instead, it made living a bit easier for me and those around me, and honestly, i absolutely hate organized religion myself, but that’s what makes the JC guy so cool once you get too know the history, the founding idea is v based, have you ever seen Life of Brian? there are more entertaining ways to spend your time on the internet when we’ll all die in the water wars, i’m only tedtalking here since i’m 2 4lokos in, christ has more carl jung points than star trek, but they achieve the same purpose
and, uh teehee you fell for the b8, m8, u mad bro??
Not advocating for the other person, but there’s a big difference in what you’re comparing it to. People choose their religion, and they choose their profession. If those 2 things are in direct conflict, like a religious scientist, the audience of their work should be made aware of that conflict.
Most people are born into their religion, as a matter of culture. Frequently, religion is integral to their culture, and even if they do choose to leave that religion, it likely will leave an indelible mark- good or bad-
Their purpose is to other-ize religious scientists, exactly like what the yellow star was used to do to Jews by Nazis, (and at other times and places.) I think we all know what Nazis did to those they otherized.
The rhetoric is absolutely the same kind of justification for forcing it is also the same. When non-Jewish Germans started sympathies with Jews, do you think they admitted it was to encourage discrimination and bigotry, or do you think they said things like “we know it’s difficult, but they do shoddy work and you should know that you need to keep an eye on them.”
Couching it in the rhetoric of atheist enlightenment doesn’t make it okay. It’s still bigotry, and while the OC might not realize that, meaning to or not, it’s still advancing bigotry.
when treated with ideals of respect and tolerance, religious people still adhere to the tenants of their religions leading to bigotry and stupidity
being tolerant of the religious is like being tolerant of a pack of rabid hyenas. I suppose it’s the kind thing to do to the rabid hyenas, but it may not be the best option for those who are not rabid hyenas
the religious burned scientists at the stake. i think having skepticism towards the rational ability of religious scientists is not bigotry when religious irrationality has been shown to have broad and constant historical validity
No. You’re just saying we need to label religious professionals.
Because that’s a thing literal Nazis never did
The yellow badge was part of a racist ideology based on eugenics pseudoscience.
This is not race or ethnicity based or part of a political movement. However, if you are a conservative Christian who believes that a virgin gave birth, that Sunday bread has supernatural properties, and listen to the Pope and religious sermons on a regular basis, then YES, IT DOES AFFECT YOUR FETAL PAIN STUDY when you clearly are trying to outlaw abortion because your religion wants that.
My wanting to know the religious bias of someone believing in illogical fairy tale bullshit is not the equivalent of Nazism, who would have put someone like me to death many times over. I don’t want bullshit to taint science. It’s an understandable request. The atheists of the world have been dealing with religious bullshit for so long, it’s fair to want real data.
If we had the religious bias of scientists clearly known, it would be illuminating in many ways, including scientific equivalency which has become the new moral equivalency.
Right now you have “one the one hand, these 90 scientists believe we are all going to die from global warming but these 10 scientists think this is a normal trend”
I would MUCH rather have “on the one hand, these 90 scientists who believe the world is governed by math think we are all going to die from global warming, and these 10 catholic scientists who think a virgin got pregnant and gave birth without sexual fertilization and that jesus will always protect the planet think this is a normal trend”
this is not a ridiculous or fascist position and religious bullshit has infected climate science, and studying psychology, and led to justifications for racism and homophobia and OFTEN results in scientific conclusions that conveniently seem to at first line up with religion… until more and more data eventually proves it to be bullshit. This is not about discrimination. I want bullshit out of the data set.
I understand your position and I get what you are going for, but…
I submit to you Ayn Rand.
Atheists can be giant pieces of shit, too.
She used her atheism to argue for the benefit of selfishness and promoted dumbass “great men” theories of humanity. She was not Christian but ascribed to similar belief in the need for bullshit heirarchies with lazy fucking losers stealing the value created by labor sitting at the top.
Like her daddy before communism. Waaah so sad for daddy’s violently fascist supporting little girl.
So I don’t think it would solve as much as you think.
Humans are not rational creatures. We are rationalizing creatures and we can rationalize and justify almost anything to ourselves for any reason, religion isn’t needed for it. Rand and many others are fine examples of it. She rationalized it because she was a rich kid who had her riches taken back by workers and she didn’t like that.
Humans are bullshitters, removing religion won’t change that.
Like does anyone think Donald Trump is seriously, actually religious? Anyone? A guy like him would exist with or without religion.
Many many people think Trump is a practicing Christian. Like 90% of white evangelicals.
And, do you think, that a scientist who happens to be LGBTQ, doing a study on monkey sexuality, is able to be not biased by their worldview?
That because they seem to agree with you they’re immune from bias and are therefore totally trustworthy?
How pedantic do you want to get?
Either the science is good or it’s not. Either the study was conducted to minimize bias, the data is clean, and the conclusions come from verified evidence, or it’s not. We don’t need to know what particular flavor of human someone is- everyone is biased. Most studies are funded by private interest, and opening people up to rampant discrimination isn’t going to change that.
Some people can be religious and understand metaphor: some people can be atheist and understand metaphor. Some prime can be religious and interpret religion literally: as can some atheists (eg ” those people believe all the species on earth fit on a boat" when obviously, many religious don’t). I’m reading statements that make good points, either way. Maybe peer review being more stringent would address a lot?
i’m sorry that you have to live with such anger in your heart, G*D bless your poor soul 🫰🫰
and let reason one day remove your cognitive short-comings and bestow you with hate for the injustice minorities have had to suffer at the hands of the religious
Do you realize how passive-aggressive that sounds?
Why do religious types always drop this when they really have nothing to say? “Oh I believe in something that is so hateful and has caused many pain but why are you so angry?!!? Omg poor thing! Bless you!.”.This is how I know someone isn’t truly following these things with their heart. They’re following it to feel superior to those who don’t believe or who don’t practice the way they do. I’ve never seen hate like religious hate.
they do this when they have nothing to say AND lack power
if this religious person had power and knew who I was and where I was, and there was a government of like-minded religious dullards, they would be more than willing to light the first twig
It’s only “oh you poor thing” because my logic has over-whelmed their feeble religious brain like a tidal wave subsuming the shore and they are falling back on delusions of “i hope this person receives mercy.,… because they are so EVIL!!! and the sky god knows all!!!”
it’s meaningless blather that tells you nothing of the true destructive power of religious idiots
the funniest part to me is i grew up in a ‘new age’ ‘way of living’ (“it’s not a religion, it’s a state of mind”,“it’s not a church, it’s a community center”) i only betrayed my family by becoming a christian maybe a decade ago. i remember making the conscious decision the summer between 4th and 5th grade that i would do everything in my power to be the best human being possible, better than anyone ever was, i prayed and i told god that i wouldn’t even curse, and i remember at least feeling that i had tried so hard to achieve that, and god never even made my life better, i don’t even want to linger on what could have had me so desperate and questioning at that age, but i became an out and open atheist from that point, the thing is i never stopped reading, and i never stopped questioning. Philip K Dick is one of my favourite authors, especially reading Radio Free Albemuth, and more so the actual reality of his history and what the guy went through. have you ever heard of a guy Theodore Sturgeon? i would personally recommend More Than Human and Godbody. you need to understand that the very concept and idea of such a force has been going on longer than the now western Christ, and once i chose to stop fighting humanity and to worship it instead, it made living a bit easier for me and those around me, and honestly, i absolutely hate organized religion myself, but that’s what makes the JC guy so cool once you get too know the history, the founding idea is v based, have you ever seen Life of Brian? there are more entertaining ways to spend your time on the internet when we’ll all die in the water wars, i’m only tedtalking here since i’m 2 4lokos in, christ has more carl jung points than star trek, but they achieve the same purpose
and, uh teehee you fell for the b8, m8, u mad bro??
not entirely.
i stopped reading the first paragraph when i read “becoming a christian” and knew the rest of it would be irrelevant, illogical, and pointless.
i read the last sentence of curiosity.
the correct response to the religious is to ignore everything they say and treat their words like the illogical waste of time that they are.
such an old thread, who are you pandering to? you could just message me directly if you need someone to talk to
I am not sure. I am seeing this response but since there is no quote I don’t know what I wrote.
Not advocating for the other person, but there’s a big difference in what you’re comparing it to. People choose their religion, and they choose their profession. If those 2 things are in direct conflict, like a religious scientist, the audience of their work should be made aware of that conflict.
Most people are born into their religion, as a matter of culture. Frequently, religion is integral to their culture, and even if they do choose to leave that religion, it likely will leave an indelible mark- good or bad-
Their purpose is to other-ize religious scientists, exactly like what the yellow star was used to do to Jews by Nazis, (and at other times and places.) I think we all know what Nazis did to those they otherized.
The rhetoric is absolutely the same kind of justification for forcing it is also the same. When non-Jewish Germans started sympathies with Jews, do you think they admitted it was to encourage discrimination and bigotry, or do you think they said things like “we know it’s difficult, but they do shoddy work and you should know that you need to keep an eye on them.”
Couching it in the rhetoric of atheist enlightenment doesn’t make it okay. It’s still bigotry, and while the OC might not realize that, meaning to or not, it’s still advancing bigotry.
when treated with ideals of respect and tolerance, religious people still adhere to the tenants of their religions leading to bigotry and stupidity
being tolerant of the religious is like being tolerant of a pack of rabid hyenas. I suppose it’s the kind thing to do to the rabid hyenas, but it may not be the best option for those who are not rabid hyenas
the religious burned scientists at the stake. i think having skepticism towards the rational ability of religious scientists is not bigotry when religious irrationality has been shown to have broad and constant historical validity
Yeah. So. To clarify, you’re okay with discriminating against people, so long as they’re the right people?